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Rowan Mangan

Writer. Mom. Wild Inventurer.

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How to talk to Ro and Marty on Bewildered

December 2, 2021 17 Comments

Hi folks! We have a new kind of Bewildered episode, called “The BeWild Files,” which will feature listeners’ voices and our responses. YAY!

Please find instructions below for sending a voice message to the Bewildered podcast. We love hearing from you, and while not every submission can make it onto the BeWild File episodes, we do try and listen to as many of them as we can.

How to talk to us? Read on!

(But first, a little tip about the kind of content that will be played. Keep the tone light, make the conundrum real and relatable, and extra points for absurdity and a quirky look at this bewildering world.)

Please check these instructions carefully, as we can’t use any messages that don’t adhere to these guidelines.

1. Using the Voice Memo (or equivalent) app on your phone, record a brief (45 seconds or less) message. At the beginning of your message, please say that we have your permission to use your voice on the podcast.

2. How do I do that? If you have an iPhone, there should be an app on your phone called Voice Memo. If you don’t, try Googling “How to record a voice memo on my [PHONE NAME] phone.”

3. When you have your message recorded, check that you’ve stated your permission at the beginning, you’ve checked that it’s less than 45 seconds, and you’ve saved it.

4. Email the voice file to our email address: BEWILDEREDTHEPODCAST@MARTHABECK.COM (note that there’s a “the” between “bewildered” and “podcast.”) You will receive an autoreply if your submission is received. If you don’t, double check the email address.

5. How do I email it? Google is your friend.

We can’t wait to hear from you!

This article originally appeared on Rowan’s Wild Inventures substack newsletter. To subscribe and get all Rowan’s posts in your inbox, head over to Wild Inventures on substack now. 

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Filed Under: Work inventures Tagged With: bewildered podcast

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Comments

  1. Susan Dean says

    December 27, 2021 at 8:22 pm

    Dear Rowan and Marty, WOW! What an absolutely wonderful podcast you’ve created!! I’m bingeing and loving every moment. It’s a pure delight to hear smart and funny women. Thank you, thank you!
    Best, Susan Dean

    Reply
  2. Adriann says

    February 10, 2022 at 6:05 pm

    Hi guys! (yep, I use that all the time too)

    Firstly, thank you for the wonderful job that you do in creating this podcast.
    I just listened to ‘The Productivity Addict’ and holy cow did you nail some fortuitous topics – not to mention give me a wonderful slice of time that was filled with out loud laughter (perhaps strange behavior in an office setting, but extremely welcome to me!) – thank you 🙂

    Second thing to address… Martha, I too have the tsunamis of shame that will rear up out of nowhere and smack me. WTF is up with that?!? However, lately it seems that my thinking monkey brain is being even more sadistic and giving me flashes of intensely crystal clear moments of grief – so intense in my body that they create immediate tears and wrenching hollowness in my gut. My observer self can see what is happening, but my animal self still reacts. I (observer self) wonder why my brain is doing this, and why is it doing it at moments that I am trying to reach states of deep calm? It’s like a toddler screaming ‘LOOK AT ME!!’ It is also all the more powerful because it sneaks up on me in moments of stillness and sucker punches me. I honestly had the thought to call and leave a message for BeWildered asking about this all this week! I am still interested in the dynamics of what is happening here and I think it needs more investigation.

    And now to move on to PERFECTIONISM… oh that sneaky bastard. I think that I am more of the Rowan type when it comes to this (though if I actually DO put something out there the gremlins definitely start in on the ‘people be judge-y’ side of things). When I have ideas for projects I will plan them to death instead of starting them/editing them/etc. I am a MASTER of detailed lists, diagrams, and sketches of how I want to execute something. I also get caught in the continuous fiddling with things to prolong being ‘done’ with them. I read a really good quote (but I can’t remember what book or person) that said something like ‘art never gets finished, you just get to a point and have to release it’ or ‘let it go’ – or something like that (I wonder if it was the ‘ship it’ guy). That was so spot on. Release the hounds!

    I have a few projects that need my attention and I have been shying away from them because of those nasty thoughts that perfectionism puts in your head (not good enough, there is such a glut in the market how can you even DREAM of putting your work out there, ad nauseam). But, your comments on not releasing something as a kind of selfishness, and what good is something going to do living in a drawer – that struck a cord with me.

    I have an UNDERPAINTING (yes, Marty you had me rolling with that story) that I have extremely high hopes of and doubts of being able to duplicate what is in my head.
    AND I have a book that I wrote and have been trying to figure out next steps (and floundering horribly with). The ‘getting it out there’ is uncharted territory to me. I have also had some out of the box thinking on this project as well (see ‘glut in the market’ to stall enthusiasm). It’s just the DOING that has me stymied. I WANT to share and connect with people – I REALLY DO! The comment about the ‘worst thing in your life/cave/giving others a way to navigate it’ made me tear up.

    EVERYTHING that the two of you talked about in this podcast spoke so deeply to my truth (and I have been living out of integrity for soooooo long). I know it’s a bit woowoo but your conversation was so specific and dovetailed a little too neatly with things that I need to work on. Now I just have to find the energy and faith to DO and figure out the HOWs.

    Thank you both for the amazing work that you do, the wisdom you share, and the bright spots in my day that you create 🙂

    Reply
  3. leslie says

    April 11, 2022 at 5:49 pm

    Your podcast is keeping me sane. Every one is a gem that soothes my soul.
    I’m trying to figure out how to study what I need to know and how to know what I need to study. My husband is dying of a strange cognitive disorder that has caused dementia. I’m afraid it’s genetic and has been increasing slowly for a long, long, time – maybe the entire 25 years I’ve known him. He has three kids, two of whom are ours together. I can’t stand to see their dear personalities disappear into this long deep well of sad incapacity, so I want to do the genetic & neurological research to really make a difference. CRISPR-cas technology can repair genetic defects. I want to make a real intellectual contribution to the effort. But, at 55, being low-income with a sick husband, Idon’t have the time, money, or perhaps even the brain power to get a doctorate in biochemistry & do post doc research. How do I get to that level though? I don’t want to do fundraisers and awareness work and leave research to the experts. I have a burning desire to be the expert. I want to do it non-traditionally. But how??? I don’t care about credentials so much. What I care about is real knowledge.

    Reply
    • Emily Keane says

      February 28, 2023 at 12:33 am

      Just take one little step . See if you can enroll at a community college or local university and take a preliminary class to taste it out. Don’t look how long it will take or if you cannot afford it (the money will come if this is your passion and it sounds like it is ☺️). One little small step at a time and you might just see the magic unfold .

      Reply
  4. Betsy Ewen says

    April 20, 2022 at 8:31 pm

    I just have to share- I just finished your bewilderment podcast about anxiety (I laughed out load several times, you guys are worth your weight in gold)
    The subject was right on target- I too have a great life, yet still have anxiety.
    I want to share 2 examples of my coping that you guys touched on.
    1. everything is new, the past is lost: When I have anxiety I can’t talk down I simply say ” oh, we’ve already processed that, or oh, we already healed that”. I don’t even have to know why I’m anxious and this will work.
    2. I love to watch golf while quilting. For some reason the voices calm me. Anyway, when a cheer goes up, I pretend it’s for me- works like a charm!

    Reply
  5. Lamb Bennett says

    September 8, 2022 at 10:38 am

    Bewildered podcast is a healthy, wholesome meal to be consumed daily.

    Reply
  6. Brenda says

    September 12, 2022 at 11:00 pm

    Cave early is so fantastic thank you for doing the podcast so helpful

    Reply
  7. May says

    February 6, 2023 at 7:05 pm

    I love you, I do. Perish the thought that little me should offer a correction but I have to. On the productivity podcast, when you reference Schindler’s List, Oscar Schindler is not in regret in the way you are describing, it isn’t that he can’t appreciate the greatness of what he’s done because he can’t stop and accept the gratitude. It is regret over the careless expenditure of money for things like cigarettes, jewelry and excess at the beginning of the war when he was enjoying his lavish lifestyle instead of how every penny could have bought another jewish life. He is realizing the gravity of those foolish acts now in their full strength. Still love you and listen to every wise word!

    Reply
  8. Jacquelene Ohmert says

    March 28, 2023 at 4:44 am

    Hello, thank you

    Reply
  9. carrie says

    May 20, 2023 at 10:32 am

    never enough episode…yes and now I am trying to figure out what to do with the regret of trying to please and missing my life. My finish line was pleasing unpleasable parents and a midwestern culture which is happiest being miserable and pessimistic. Thing is these parents also have not wanted much to do with me outside of judge for my adult life. I wonder if others have had to pretend, they have had parents their whole life to those who have had them, otherwise it becomes a worse extended old war, and you fall into a doom vacuum. Yet, I am stronger for not staying a child like they often are in older adulthood without the autonomy.

    Reply
  10. Kathy says

    October 21, 2023 at 5:04 pm

    Recently listened to podcast with Elizabeth Gilbert …. You discussed Pema Chodron and her comment about water clearing as you work on things and then see “all the junk underneath “. Wondering
    about my issues with being an empath and as I am working on things I am feeling more distress of feelings from others or things going on in the world …I think I hid these feelings of empathy in my anxiety and as that is clearing my empathic feelings are more intense …

    Reply
  11. Jona says

    October 29, 2023 at 3:44 pm

    Write HANDBOOK ON CONVERSATIONAL GRAMMAR

    Reply
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    April 29, 2025 at 12:57 pm

    ” she wailed.エロ フィギュア 無 修正“She says that I set Diana drunk Saturdayand sent her home in a disgraceful condition.

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    May 1, 2025 at 12:11 pm

    Your words have a certain weight to them — they sit with you, long after you’ve finished reading.

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Did you know that true kindness is a superpower? ✊🌼

In this episode of Bewildered, we’re talking about the way that true kindness—starting with kindness towards ourselves—is actually a deeply subversive force in our culture.

Kindness has the power to disrupt systems of cruelty and division, and it’s a rebellion against the scarcity, everyone-in-it-for-himself mentality that’s pedaled so widely (never more than now in this culture).

So if you want to be a rebel against the culture of domination and extraction and overwhelming force, be a rebel first by being kind to yourself.

You can listen to Bewildered episode 101: Out-Kind the Culture, access the show notes, and find links to resources on our website at the link in our bio—or on your favorite podcasting app. 🎧
Do you want to be really subversive and really sti Do you want to be really subversive and really stick it to The Man? 👨🏻‍⚖️
(Especially The Man as he is currently configured in our culture…)

Here is how to do it:
Be kind. 🥰

Be kind to yourself, and you will naturally be kind elsewhere. Keep in mind: Kindness is not what the culture tells us it is—foolish, passive, naive—no. Kindness is immense power. ☀️

If we can learn to tap into it in a way that is accessible to us, it is so much more powerful than the forces of cruelty that want to keep us in our place.

Hope you’ll join us for this new episode of Bewildered: Out-Kind the Culture. 💗

You can listen to Bewildered episode 101: Out-Kind the Culture, access the show notes, and find links to resources on our website at the link in our bio—or on your favorite podcasting app. 🎧
What’s something you accept about yourself? 🤔 What’s something you accept about yourself? 🤔

In this episode of Bewildered, we’re talking about the idea of training your “human”—the body, mind, and personality you were given at birth but is separate from your Self—and one of the steps is accepting your human as it is.

Ro has accepted that her human will never be consistent through a year. She’ll have months of being really on top of things and months where the things are on top of her. There doesn’t seem to be any way around that. 🧐

Each mode her human goes into feels like the ultimate personality. Like, “Now I’m myself! And this is how it will continue for the rest of time.”

But she’s getting much better at understanding that it won’t last—it is what it is right now—and just letting that be, as one season gives way to another, knowing that they do come back around as well. 🛞

The culture fixates on permanency and consistency—“Be the same creature throughout the year and for always”—but that’s just not how many people’s humans work at all.

To find out more about observing, accepting, and training your human so you can cultivate more peace and joy, tune in for the full conversation! 🎙️

You can listen to Bewildered episode 100: How to Train Your Human, access the show notes, and find links to resources on our website at the link in our bio—or on your favorite podcasting app. 🎧
Do you ever just catch yourself doing something an Do you ever just catch yourself doing something and think, “I have such a funny human. Look at it. Look what it does.” 😅

That is what our episode today is about—what it is to function inside the human that we’re given when we’re born. 🐣

And learning:

🤔 how it works
👍 what it will do
👎 what it won’t do

And maybe training it to be the best human and have the most fun as a human that it can.

It’s all on a new episode of Bewildered called “How to Train Your Human.” Check it out, it’s pretty fun. 😀

You can listen to Bewildered episode 100: How to Train Your Human, access the show notes, and find links to resources on our website at the link in our bio—or on your favorite podcasting app. 🎧
How do you know if you’re stuck in an algorithm How do you know if you’re stuck in an algorithm cycle? 🌀

Here’s how it works:

If something strikes you as interesting, the algorithm will instantly create the impression that everyone knows about this thing that you’ve just discovered—everyone’s talking about it, and everyone has the same concerns. 🗣️

Then what happens with that impression is that just by the force of the number of people, it makes it seem more credible and true. So even if I’ve only seen 30 people saying the same thing, my impression is that it’s probably about 75% of all people.

And if 75% of people believe something, there’s a very good chance it’s correct, right? That’s just what they call “Doing the math.” ➕➖✖️➗

And not only does it feel factually right, it feels morally right as well.

So how do we break out of this illusion of consensus and navigate through all the chaos and uncertainty? Find out on this episode of the Bewildered podcast! 🎙️

You can listen to Bewildered episode 99: War of the Worldviews, access the show notes, and find links to resources on our website at the link in our bio—or on your favorite podcasting app. 🎧
Like most people, you’ve got a worldview. 🌎 A Like most people, you’ve got a worldview. 🌎
And also like most people, you want to uphold and defend that worldview. 🛡️

Enter “apophenia”—a condition all humans are susceptible to—which Webster’s Dictionary defines as “the tendency to perceive a connection or meaningful patterns between unrelated or random things.” 🧶

Apophenia is often the chemical and mental scaffolding by which we uphold a worldview that, under scrutiny, may not hold up that well. 🤔

Or might not even hold up at all. 😳

Want to learn more about apophenia, conspiracy theories, fractured worldviews, and how we can all come to our senses? Join us for this episode of the Bewildered podcast! 🎙️

You can listen to Bewildered episode 99: War of the Worldviews, access the show notes, and find links to resources on our website at the link in our bio—or on your favorite podcasting app. 🎧
Do you ever find that in order to explain to someo Do you ever find that in order to explain to someone what’s really going on you need:

📌 a gigantic pin board
📰 newspaper clippings
🧶 a lot of yarn

If that is the case, you might be suffering from a condition known as “apophenia.”

On today’s episode of Bewildered, we’re talking about:

👽 conspiracy theories
🤖 algorithms
💔 a fractured sense of reality
⚔️ the war of the worldviews

All of this—and how we can come to our senses. I hope you’ll join us!

You can listen to Bewildered episode 99: War of the Worldviews, access the show notes, and find links to resources on our website at the link in our bio—or on your favorite podcasting app.
There is a wonderful artist we love called Amie Mc There is a wonderful artist we love called Amie McNee (@inspiredtowrite), who recently wrote a very cool essay on her Substack about not wanting a job. She said that if you don’t want to have a conventional job in this society, you will be seen as weak or lazy. 🦥

For Amie, it’s a very different sort of thing—it’s about not having a high tolerance for suffering and not wanting to suffer. Here’s what she says in her essay:

“We live in a culture that venerates toiling and drudgery. Because I have an intolerance for a life that doesn’t sparkle, I created a life that was filled with meaning and purpose. Ironically, to do so, I worked harder than I ever have before, but it was work that absolutely glittered. 💎

“Now I write, talk, paint, connect. I do it to make money. I do it because it lights me up. I do it because that is why I’m here on this earth. Life sparkles, yet I still feel like I'm getting away with something. I’ve snuck around a compulsory part of being a human being, which is doing work that sucks.”

If you want to hear more about creating a life that lights you up, instead of a life where you’re only a drudge for money, be sure to tune in for this episode of Bewildered. Let’s figure it out!

You can listen to Bewildered episode 98: Your Money or Your Life, access the show notes, and find links to resources on our website at the link in our bio—or on your favorite podcasting app. 🎧

** A note on this episode: We angered the technology gods somehow during the recording of this podcast, and they took away the video we faithfully recorded for you. We are making the appropriate offerings to those specific deities and we’ll be back in your visual field for the next episode! **
Our culture tells us to always put money in the mi Our culture tells us to always put money in the middle of our lives, and there’s a compulsiveness to this feeling of hoarding money and of making money. 🤑

In this episode of Bewildered, we’re talking about this compulsion and looking at what might fill our attention if we take money and jobs out of the middle.

Money is basically an abstract extrapolation of the barter system. 🪙🟰🐮

Our culture has turned it into something you can hoard when actually you can’t, not in any meaningful way, because on its own, money doesn’t mean anything. 🪙🟰🪙

We heard a quote in the context of addiction that said, “You can never get enough of something that almost works.” Money is an addictive thing that makes you want more and more and more of it because you’re trying to fill a differently shaped hole.

In this episode we’re challenging the idea that money should be at the center of our lives and proposing what kinds of things we could put there instead. Join us!

You can listen to Bewildered episode 98: Your Money or Your Life, access the show notes, and find links to resources on our website at the link in our bio—or on your favorite podcasting app. 🎧

** A note on this episode: We angered the technology gods somehow during the recording of this podcast, and they took away the video we faithfully recorded for you. We are making the appropriate offerings to those specific deities and we’ll be back in your visual field for the next episode! **
Our culture tells us that you need to put money… Our culture tells us that you need to put money…

💵 the making of money
🪙 the generating of money
🤑 the money-making-money-making-money

…at the very center of your attention, if not your entire life.

Now, it may be that at this moment, work and getting money has to fill a lot of our day, but it doesn’t have to fill our attention.

What we’re talking about today on Bewildered is what happens when you pluck the money/work cultural story from the center of your attention. 🎯

Let’s see what goes there instead. It’s kind of wild…

Join us!

You can listen to Bewildered episode 98: Your Money or Your Life, access the show notes, and find links to resources on our website at the link in our bio—or on your favorite podcasting app. 🎧

** A note on this episode: We angered the technology gods somehow during the recording of this podcast, and they took away the video we faithfully recorded for you. We are making the appropriate offerings to those specific deities and we’ll be back in your visual field for the next episode! **
In this episode of the Bewildered podcast, we’re In this episode of the Bewildered podcast, we’re discussing our very noisy culture and how different kinds of noise can affect us in different ways. 🙉

For Ro, when she’s in New York walking down the street during Sunday brunch time, she finds the noise of people chatting outside at restaurants enlivening instead of irritating. Its effect on her nervous system is net positive.

“And I don’t think that’s association or any sort of mental gymnastics that’s happening. I genuinely think it hits my nervous system differently because it contains a different emotional frequency,” she says.

Martha says that there’s a certain amount of reaction to noise that we can’t control.

For example, you could be habituated to traffic noise where you think nothing of it, and yet:

😩 It’s destroying your sleep.
〰️ It’s keeping you from alpha waves.
🌰 It’s triggering your amygdala to make you afraid.

And you don't even know that’s happening. 🤯

“If there’s an alarm call, you’re going to have a very strong reaction,” she adds, “and you can’t really control that. But there’s also a level in which you have some say, you have some deciding power, because it’s about what the sound means to you.”

Tune in for the full episode to learn how different sound frequencies can affect you (for better and for worse) and how to take a break from our increasingly noisy culture.

You can listen to Bewildered episode 97: Clamor and Birdsong, access the show notes, and find links to resources on our website at the link in our bio—or on your favorite podcasting app. 🎧
Are you a fan of white noise? 🤍 We find that w Are you a fan of white noise? 🤍

We find that white noise is not ideal for work, as it can set your teeth on edge a little bit. 😬

Luckily, there are other “colors” of noise that are more in the mid-range of what we can hear, where it’s like the sound is a bit blunted.

We particularly enjoy green noise, which is the one that supposedly sounds most like the natural world, and it’s very pleasant. 💚

You can play these different colored soundscapes on loops on YouTube—like ten hours of uninterrupted green noise—and it’s just wonderful!

It’s an inexpensive way to create your own personalized soundscape—for example, with green noise on your laptop and birdsong on your phone, for free—and positively affect your nervous system. 💚🦜

Want to learn more about the effects of sound on your nervous system and how to navigate an increasingly noisy culture? Join us for this episode of the Bewildered podcast!

You can listen to Bewildered episode 97: Clamor and Birdsong, access the show notes, and find links to resources on our website at the link in our bio—or on your favorite podcasting app. 🎧
Hey, folks, got a new episode of Bewildered for yo Hey, folks, got a new episode of Bewildered for you today!

Noise. Noisy.
(Some pronounce it noisé if you’re very sophisticated. 🧐)

We’re talking about noise—how our culture is even noisier than we know…🔊
And how our thinking brains can think, “I don’t notice any noise.” 🤷🏽
But our nervous systems know better. 🧠

We’re also going to talk about:

📡 frequency
🔇 silence
🐦 and birdsong (which is even more important than silence)

You’ll have to listen in! 🙉

You can listen to Bewildered episode 97: Clamor and Birdsong, access the show notes, and find links to resources on our website at the link in our bio—or on your favorite podcasting app. 🎧
Getting through the winter of our discontent the o Getting through the winter of our discontent the only way we know how… 

by being ADORABLE.
Did you know that historians (and other people who Did you know that historians (and other people who have jobs that make them sound impressive and straight-down-the-line culturally) will tell you that during times of chaos…

🔥 collective chaos
💥 political chaos
⚠️ danger

…it becomes much more important than usual to listen to, trust, and act on your intuition. 🔮

That’s what Marty and I are talking about on today’s episode of Bewildered, entitled “Stand By for Further Instructions.” I hope you’ll listen!

You can listen to Bewildered episode 96: Stand By for Further Instructions, access the show notes, and find links to resources on our website at the link in our bio—or on your favorite podcasting app. 🎧
Did you know that by tuning in to anxiety—thinki Did you know that by tuning in to anxiety—thinking it’s intuition—we totally miss all the calls from our destiny? 📞

Culture teaches us to either rationalize away our intuition or conflate it with anxiety, and on this episode of the Bewildered podcast, we’re figuring out how to hang up on culture so we can pick up the calls that are truly meant for us!

The thing that those two types of storytelling have in common—the supposedly rational one and the anxiety-based one—is that they’re both very sure that they’re the right answer. They’re both very beguiling and very convincing, so they diminish any other alternative. 🧐

They also kick off a fight-or-flight response. They’re a little bit combative, a little bit definitive—or they scare you and make you want to run. 👟

But we have a pretty good rule of thumb to train yourself out of this: If you feel anything that is “fight or flight” in a message, try not to think of it as real intuition. Instead, think of it as just something you’ve learned to be afraid of. 

Are you ready to hang up with culture, trust your intuition, and find out what you really want? Then this is the episode for you. Join us!

You can listen to Bewildered episode 95: You Have One Missed Call from Destiny, access the show notes, and find links to resources on our website at the link in our bio—or on your favorite podcasting app. 🎧

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